Arizona Sunshine 2 has established an incredible energy and built quite the hype for fans of the original, and newcomers to the franchise. As Vertigo Games prepares to launch its next VR title, many gamers have expressed their enthusiasm over gameplay, narrative, and of course the new canine companion, Buddy.
While there are certainly those who can barely contain their enthusiasm, there is likely no one out there as excited for this release as Peter Deurloo. It was clear from my interview with the talented and welcoming Game Director of Arizona Sunshine 2, that he is one of the biggest fans of the series. We talked about his love of the original, what has improved, and the sheer artistry of Sky Soleil.
It is the goal of Deurloo and the Vertigo team to be at the forefront of VR innovation, and it appears their latest zombie outing is once again pushing the limits of the medium. So, without further ado, please enjoy this intriguing interview with Mr. Peter Deurloo.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to speak with FandomWire. Would you mind telling us a bit about yourself, your career, and what led to your work with Vertigo Games?
So, I’m Peter Deurloo, game director at Vertigo Games. I’m actually sort of somebody who has been with Vertigo a long time, but I’ve been sort of coming, going away, and coming back again. Funny enough actually, my career started with the CEO of Vertigo Games back when it was still called Delusions. And he kept pulling me back into the amazing company of Vertigo Games. And this time I do intend to stay, with all the amazing stuff we’re doing. But basically, I’ve run 15 years under my belt now. Previously, I was actually working on the Avengers Project together with Crystal Dynamics. And now I’m actually in the wild, wild, world of VR, which is always exciting every day. Kind of in a nutshell. Could go on and on about that.
Have you always had an interest in VR development, or did Vertigo get you into it?
I mean, the idea of VR has always been interesting, even back with the Virtual Boy, really. Funny enough I was with Vertigo when the original Oculus prototype was there, so the Kickstarter project. And I actually was there when we did sort of the first tryouts with that. It was always interesting. Back in the day when we didn’t have any rules for them. So, I was developing with lower frame rates than you can imagine. And it was very, very sickening. Nowadays, we have good rules. We have very good tech, so that is less of a problem. But it was all the way back then that I was actually introduced to VR. And it still amazes me today, like the opportunities and how it’s still growing and expanding. So, yeah it was Vertigo in a sense that sort of got me hooked into VR.
Since you also worked as the game director for After the Fall, how would you compare that experience to Arizona Sunshine 2? And since both have zombies, how would you relate the two titles?
It is a different…It’s definitely a different experience. For After the Fall, we aimed to create a highly replayable multiplayer game. That was very, very, high-paced and wasn’t relying all that much on story. But it’s all just high-paced zombie shooting. And for Arizona Sunshine 2, it was actually to take a step back from that high-paced and that super intense zombie shooting and really sort of focus on a narrative-driven zombie shooter, which Arizona Sunshine 2 definitely has become.
What is it like to direct for VR compared to other mediums? And because After the Fall and Arizona Sunshine 2 are both zombie-based, would you say you like working with the undead?
Well, colleagues aside, you know, I think zombies are always interesting. I mean, it’s always fun. And then with ATF and Arizona Sunshine 2, we also proved that we can sort of have a different experience with them. And definitely what other zombie games have tried, you know, zombies are pretty diverse to keep doing this for a couple more years, even. It hasn’t really been a conscious choice for me to create zombie games, but Vertigo is pretty adept at that. So, I jumped onto that wagon and I’m definitely enjoying it.
The difference between 2D versus VR is mostly with the tech. There’s just a lot you need to consider. With the 2D AAA games nowadays it’s almost limitless, right? You can do so much. All of the consoles and the PCs are so strong nowadays that with VR, we still have technical limitations to deal with. Which in a way is very interesting because it’s kind of like the way it was back in the old days with the older consoles, where the limitations actually required you to be more creative in your solutions. Which I think is very comparable. And I personally very much enjoy. And sort of seeing that tech grow and become better with every year. It’s very exciting to see where it will go.
Arizona Sunshine 2 is releasing almost exactly seven years after the original. How much has changed since the first game released? Should players expect a time jump between entries?
So, with time jump, do you mean in the narrative? Yes. Yes. Well obviously a lot has changed. The way I always sort of tell this to other people is that we definitely try to keep the hearts of the core experience of AS1 the same. Really sort of placing our main protagonist at its core. Or the zombie shooting at its core. And the main protagonist as its heart. And actually by adding Buddy to the game, we added a soul to it. That really completes it. But definitely, there’s a lot of improvements in gameplay and evolutions. We’ve learned a lot from ATF that we’ve incorporated into AS2. Everything looks bigger, better, more beautiful, more gory, way, way, way, more gory. And yeah, when it comes to gameplay, it has expanded quite a bit. It has definitely evolved a lot. And the narrative-driven part, we’ve really doubled down on that. And really tried to get closer to a very strong narrative experience as well. Aside from the, you know, loads and loads of zombies you can shoot.
Why is it important to tell a narrative-driven story when a lot of VR titles are more like arcade games that do not provide much plot?
I think it’s important to have that media grow. For it to sort of evolve, we need those kinds of experiences to be included as well. And like the arcadey super addictive games that are available, you know, these are really basic. I think those were sort of created out of an idea that you can easily create and sort of mold. And it runs very smoothly in VR. And that’s really fun. Like, how can we use the controls and sort of the medium itself for this new arcadey loop?
Similar to what we’ve seen in the past. Starting with the Pong game, right? All we can do is move these little two things here and have a ball in between, and it’s freaking amazing. And then we started expanding on that. And as soon as games actually started telling stories, that’s when it started growing. And I think with VR, that is happening as well. And we definitely like to be sort of in the front seat of all of that.
How long have you been working on this project and what was the point where you really started to see it come to life?
I’ve been around the project I think for almost three years now. When did I see it come to life, well the fun thing is really and this sounds very cheesy, but it’s still like as soon as you have something running and you put it into your head it’s already alive. You know it’s still that magic is still intact. But cheese aside, I think as soon as we actually got the whole of the story beats in there and all of the gameplay was getting more solid you could really see like oh wow we’re actually hitting those beats as we intended them to be. And you know that was awesome actually getting that confirmed by people that had seen it for the first time and was heartwarming, it was fantastic.
The original was developed in partnership between Vertigo and Jaywalkers Interactive, but AS2 has been completely developed by Vertigo. Has creating the game entirely in-house been challenging?
Well I hadn’t been around when Jaywalkers were there, but I do know the two guys at Jaywalkers and they are brilliant people that have played a major part with the original. Like what I mentioned before, at its core its still AS1 but it’s such a big evolution from that first one. And I think the playtime of the original was quite short, you know it was very simple. It was also when they were really solving a lot of technical issues and the tech was still behind a bit, and Vertigo has evolved as well. So, I think this time around we had the opportunity to focus a bit more on actually doing more, instead of just having to work within really set boundaries and constraints that were active back then. But most of AS1 as far as I understand has really been developed within Vertigo Games and all of the expansions and everything were all done in-house, so it has been in Vertigo’s DNA for quite a while now.
How long is Arizona Sunshine 2?
Well I can definitely tell you that it’s significantly longer than the first installment that’s for sure and it’s comparable to kind of similar campaigns for other VR story driven games. It is actually two to three times larger than the original. It has become longer than we originally set it out to be.
The campaign, definitely as a dev, you have this speed run time, just quickly test the whole game, and for Arizona Sunshine, that was I believe 40 minutes or something that they were able to actually complete it, right? It was insane. But this time around, you know, we are not able to, like, quickly test the entire game anymore. We need really good planning to be able to do that and really test it out, and that’s also something that is a big change for us. Not being able to actually test out the whole game quickly whenever there’s a new build.
So that’s both a great thing for play time for our players, but for us, that’s something that we had to shift in as well in the workflow. And obviously, even if you do it in the fastest time that is possible, or in the longest time, because you’re just constantly exploring or goofing around, then even goofing around in multiplayer is guaranteed for even more hours. Hours and hours and hours and hours. It’s basically what AS1 is still doing to this day. You still have people jumping in and just messing about, so we are definitely sure that AS2 will accomplish the same thing.
Why do you feel co-op was such an important aspect of Arizona Sunshine, to bring this style of gameplay back for the sequel?
Well, as I mentioned before, it has been such a blast to see players have their co-op experience in AS1. And the fun thing is that, for me, the very first time I played AS1, I just fell in love with the story, the simplicity, and still depth of the story, like that story of isolation and how he’s dealing with it. And, that was always the most important thing to me. It wasn’t just a simple zombie shooter. It had that simple but strong narrative. And I think they did a great job doing that.
But then when you play it in co-op, none of that matters. It’s just shoot, you know, put on crazy hats, shoot some more, have fun. You know, whatever you basically do in VR, but this time with zombies around. That is, and I think for AS2, that’s still valid. And with the features that we’ve added and incorporated that is an even more fun experience than it was. And I don’t even care, even though, like for me, the story is so important, and that’s really what I’ve been pushing hard to get right. And once, you know, people play co-op, I don’t even care if they don’t hear VO lines or they don’t look at the right thing. It’s just like, anyway, just have fun. Just go nuts.
Does the game support randomized match making or will users need a friend with VR?
You can have zero friends, and you should still be able to actually find friends online with this game. It’s cross-platform, but you should always be able to find a friend, even if in real life, your dog is your best friend.
Buddy has certainly stolen the spotlight for many gamers excited to get their hands on AS2. What was the inspiration behind choosing a canine companion?
Well, funny thing is that even when I was working on ATF, I used to get these direct messages like, “Hey Peter, can we add a dog to the game?” I was like, are you insane? How do I add a dog in this type of game? No. This time around, though, it’s like hey, it actually made a lot of sense, as we sort of explore or go deeper into the isolation of our main protagonist, and he’s just, he’s been alone all this time. It’s very clear that his last sort of escape from the apocalypse failed. So how do we treat him so he can deal with it a little bit better, right? Because that relationship that he has with Fred, like that one friend, like how can we change that? And basically, the dog companion was a perfect answer to that, where we can really dig deeper into another side of him and see how we can actually solve his loneliness in some way.
What went into the development of the next-gen combat mechanics like the manual reloading and melee combat?
Everything. So, the original had the quick reload system, basically moving it to your belt to reload. For ATF, that actually started with that mechanic as well. Basically, when I got on board there, I really pushed for the manual reload because that really gives that immersive experience that other titles provide us with. And we have some very talented people at Vertigo that are really at the top of their game when it comes to gun handling in VR. It was a no brainer for us to actually incorporate that in AS2 as well. And it has really changed the flow of the game. And it has definitely made it more immersive. And with Buddy around, whenever things are getting hectic, you still have him to sort of help you out as you struggle with your reload during the heat of battle. So that really nicely balanced itself out.
And then for melee. Looking at AS1, there’s these huge amounts of sort of hammers and all kinds of things that you can pick up. Like you can pick these things up and you can’t use it. And that’s just for us, those kind of things currently are like sins against humanity, basically. You cannot add something in a VR game that is not interactive. We’d rather just keep it out completely than having it in there and not be interactable. So, this time around, like every sort of melee thing you can have, you can even just throw your gun at a zombie and it will react.
The melee itself has been going through a couple of iterations. We’ve actually tried very complex systems. But it’s with the pacing of our game and sort of how that combat dynamic works, like our current melee has definitely been our most favorite. And looking at anyone testing it and just seeing the results of any successful melee hits is a treat. But that’s really always sort of the ground rule. Like within VR, if you can grab it, if you can touch it, you should be able to actually do something with it.
What is your favorite part of the game and why?
So for me, I think really the favorite part is just how the story unfolds and how we hit the important moments in there. I feel that we have managed to actually hit those moments. They work. Right? It’s really great to hear people sort of recalling that and talking about that. So, for me, that is definitely the thing I’m most happy about and still enjoy to this day. And otherwise, obviously, just Buddy and slaughtering zombies together is always a treat. It’s just great icing on the cake.
What has it been like to work with and direct the game’s lead voice actor, Sky Soleil? had you worked with him before?
Sky. Sky is such an amazing person. It’s like working with Sky is fantastic. He’s this big American guy. He was just, you know, a teddy bear. And he’s so lovely. He’s so great. And I feel absolutely blessed having worked with him. And doing the VO sessions with him, together with Rob Yescombe, our writer. It’s been an absolute blast. And I was doing these things after till midnight and just at the most crazy hours when everybody was asleep. And sometimes I just wanted to laugh out loud, but I had to sort of be silent about it because I had two kids sleeping downstairs. He’s so talented. I don’t know how the hell they found this guy originally. To me, he is still, and I’ve told him this many times, for me he made Arizona Sunshine 1.
It was his voice that carried that game. I think if it wasn’t for his voice, with the limited amount of VO lines we had back then, I’m quite sure I wouldn’t have had the same memory of AS1. And now with AS2, we have I think 20 times as much VO at least. It’s insane.
And it’s such a treat. I mean, when we were doing the VO sessions, when he actually came to Rotterdam for the live recordings, I was standing there and every now and then he was like asking me a question, and I felt like, hey, wait, that’s not the script, why is he saying this? Like, oh wait, you’re talking to me. It’s just like, to me, he is our main character. So, you know, if I’m just listening to the voice and I don’t see him say it, it’s unreal. So, yeah don’t get me started on Sky. I can sort of, you know, put Sky on a pedestal all day.
Was it the first time you had met Sky working on AS2?
Yes, it was.
When you look ahead and see where VR tech is headed, are there any specific mechanics you would like to incorporate in the future that wouldn’t be possible for this game?
Yeah, I think there’s already been quite some interesting things that we have available already. We have another very important rule is that our games are made as inclusive as we can, allowing basically any player to play with any other player and provide everybody with the same experience. So, none of the sort of platform-specific extras or different types of gameplay. So, with the PSVR 2, you have all of these great technological advancements in VR. With the adaptive triggers, and the advanced haptics, and the eye-tracking.
And slowly but surely the other VR headsets are taking that over with their sort of iterations, which is fantastic because that actually allows us to design games using that. And right now, for Arizona Sunshine 2, we kind of wanted to stay away from that because you create this unparity between the systems, which, we really don’t want to do. So, we have been using tech from PSVR 2. We have definitely incorporated it. So, like the adaptive triggers are in there because it doesn’t really affect gameplay.
It just gives you a little bit more immersive experience, as well as like the haptics, which is fantastic. Just being hit in the head is actually just being hit in the head, which is good. And then, obviously, you have the eye-tracking. That we can use, you know, for the foveated rendering is always something that’s super interesting. And anything that helps us make our games perform better, we obviously will try to use if there’s time to incorporate that.
That said, like all of those features, like definitely for me, the eye-tracking is such an important one. And I’m really hoping that soon enough, we get to a stage where, that’s just the default with every headset and we don’t have to worry about that not being on there. Because for VR, it’s so important to know where the player is looking. Like, what do you see? Definitely with a game as Arizona Sunshine, you’re commenting on the world. But what is the player really looking at? Right now, it’s just like, where is our head, which direction is our head facing?
And sort of within that view, we hope you can see the thing. And we’re still sort of forced to have the scribblings on top of something. Like hey, this is what we’re making a nice comment about. Just to make sure you see it. And obviously, we would love to be able to get rid of that and actually have proper triggers using actual eye-tracking. And ideas like actually having to close your eyes. Or anything else using the advanced haptics to really sort of guide the player in a way. Those are all very interesting features that lead to a much more immersive experience that I’m personally looking very much forward to being able to make that part of the core design.
Which platforms will be available to play the game? And was it like working with different headsets to create AS2?
Yeah, so, basically, it’s all of the major ones. Let me make sure I have the right ones over here. So, PSVR 2, Steam, Meta, and Pico are all confirmed.
There is such a major difference still between those headsets. I mean, you can basically put them into two sort of lanes really. We used to sort of call them mobile devices, just like as if you’re developing for a mobile phone. That’s not really the case anymore. I mean, they’re definitely a bit stronger nowadays. But it is still comparable. And so, we always sort of talk between our low-end devices and our high-end devices. And those are graphically not the same. Obviously, you have different results. But to make them run on both, you also have different challenges.
For the one, you have a texture memory to worry about and for the other it’s the amount of draw calls, like how many items are actually on screen. So, our code department over the years, has done incredible, astonishing work. They’ve allowed for like a hundred different loose items to actually be sort of drawn once. And it’s just to me, it’s still magic. I don’t even want to bother trying to understand it. All I know is that due to their sort of evolution in our pipeline, they have been able for us to actually really push the envelope in some areas. And what we always try to achieve, so as I said, we really try to make the same experience for each platform. And I often have, like, when I’m actually watching on a low-end device, it’s like, is this really low-end or am I actually linked to the PC now? Like, is this, it’s no joke.
And it’s really that difference. I mean, when you’re really putting them side to side, and like then, obviously you will see it. But when you’re experiencing the whole game we try to keep it as close as we can. That said, high-end obviously has the dynamic shadows and all of the different settings that you can have to make it as pretty as your workstation can handle. And I have played on some devices, just putting it at the max, and it looks amazing. But when it comes to the gameplay, you know, we really don’t make any, there’s zero difference. It’s exactly the same. It’s a challenge, but it’s a challenge we keep taking. And we really want to stay true to that mantra, basically.
Do you think that PSVR 2 is the highest standard in terms of quality gameplay? Or is there a headset that you think is better?
I think the PSVR 2 has definitely pushed the envelope. They’ve really made some great improvements in the headset. That is very interesting for us. Things like the foveated rendering is fantastic because that allows us to put more on the screen and keep the same performance. So that is absolutely fantastic. I mean, but it’s also comfort. So it’s still cabled, PSVR 2. And so, for me, the Quest 2 can be more comfortable at times. So, it’s sort of like what are you really looking for? What’s your play area? How do you want to play this? That’s where the differences are, really. But I definitely when you look at the quality PSVR 2 has pushed it further. So, yeah, that’s it.
Can gamers who never played Arizona Sunshine jump right into the sequel, or do they need to make playing the first game a priority?
I always recommend playing Arizona Sunshine 1 if you haven’t played it yet. But no, you don’t have to play it. I think you can definitely play them separately. It should be very clear who our main protagonist is at the beginning. And sort of the predicament he’s in and the desires he has. And you don’t necessarily need to have played the first one to understand that. So you can jump right in.
What kind of post-launch plans can fans expect to see? Can we anticipate some DLC like what came out for the first game?
Unfortunately, I’m not able to answer that at this point in time.
What was the most challenging part of making Arizona Sunshine 2?
The most challenging part I think is the same thing that I’m most happy about because it’s really these core narrative beats and sort of the ambition we had with them. It has definitely been challenging because it really went outside of our comfort zone. The whole story. The things we had done before. So, I think really trying to get closer to that AAA experience where you have that cinematic narrative like where the 2D games are right now. That is something we’re pursuing. That is what we’re going for. And I think with this installment of Arizona Sunshine, we’ve really nailed a big portion of that. So that was very, very challenging to actually get done because that’s like a whole new thing you have to do aside from actually doing all the other stuff. So that is organizing that and getting that to fruition has been a challenge, but at the same time it is very, very satisfying.
Is there anything that I haven’t asked you about that you’d like to share about Arizona Sunshine 2?
I mean, what I mentioned before, it’s the same as AS1 and it’s completely different. It has that same like “hey, it feels like AS1,” but it’s this whole new thing. So much is different and the same at the same time. It’s the one thing I’m just so excited about. Like if people will share that. If they actually see that this really feels like Arizona Sunshine 1, but it’s just so evolved. There’s just so much more this time around. So, that’s what I’m very, very, very, very, much excited about for players to see.
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