Invincible is one of the most critically acclaimed animated shows on television, so it’s no surprise that Prime Video and the team behind the show are mounting an Emmy campaign in the hopes that the series will be recognized at the awards ceremony for the best in the best of television.
We at FandomWire got to sit down with Invincible creator Robert Kirkman to discuss the show’s explosive season 2, why he thinks less familiar forms of animation like Invincible deserve the spotlight, and even a little bit about what fans should expect from the upcoming season 3.
Invincible Interview
FandomWire: I think one of the really interesting things about Invincible‘s Emmy campaign is that we’re on the heels of a legitimization of sorts of superhero media. This genre is no longer on the fringes or even just “popcorn entertainment.” It can be prestige television. The Boys — another dark superhero series on Prime Video — was nominated last year in the Drama category. As a creator of comics and superhero media, do you find it exciting to be working at this time?
Robert Kirkman: It’s great. I think that the foundation has been laid. I think that all the work that Marvel and DC have been doing for the last 20 years has really kind of opened everyone’s eyes to what you can accomplish with superhero storytelling, and now we’re able to kind of come in and shake things up and do weirder, off-the-wall, stranger things.
Now, we’ve got an audience that is so well-versed in all the different aspects of this crazy storytelling genre that you can kind of run with it. People just kind of understand and are able to kind of take in the story for what it is instead of going, “Why are these people flying? I don’t understand where these powers come from. What’s going on?” – Robert Kirkman
FW: The animation category that Invincible is competing in is historically driven by children’s programming and comedy. I wouldn’t really classify Invincible as either. Why do you think it’s important for audiences and the industry to recognize the power of animation as a medium of storytelling beyond what they might be used to seeing?
Kirkman: I think it’s a great medium that you can tell almost any story in. I think that this year is a really great year for animation, between things like Hazbin Hotel to Scavengers Reign really kind of expanding what you can expect from this. It’s not just The Simpsons anymore. It’s going to be a weird category. Who knows what will end up getting nominated, but the fact that, in the animation category, you could almost see anything showing up there is a great marker for how far animation has been pushed this year. And hopefully, it will continue to be more and more accepted, and you’ll see more grounded, real, dramatic storytelling happening in animated form.
FW: I think animation and comic books go together brilliantly, not just because of the practical similarities but also because they share a particular kineticism. How did you work with the animation team to translate this energy for Invincible?
Kirkman: It’s great because, to a certain extent, you can see how the comic medium is at times holding things back because there is no motion and there is no sound. So there’s a natural transition for adapting comics to animation where it’s like, “Okay, we accomplished all of this on the comic book page, but we weren’t able to do A, B, C, and D.” So it’s really just working with a team to say, “Hey, now that we can do A, B, C, and D, let’s really try to figure that out.”
Going from comics to animation is a lot more streamlined than going from comics to live-action. Being able to work with artists directly, you have people actually like drawing and producing everything that is seen is very similar to comics. – Robert Kirkman
There’s a language barrier to jumping to live action that involves a learning curve. And with animation, there’s still somewhat of a learning curve because there are some differences. But being able to talk to an artist directly and be able to accomplish your shots through that process is very similar to comics, and I think it made the Invincible production process a little bit easier than it would have otherwise been.
FW: One thing that the show has that the comics obviously do not is sound. In Invincible, you hear every swoosh, punch, cracking bone, etc. What do you think is the importance of the soundscape in bringing Invincible to life?
Kirkman: Well, Invincible is a very emotional story. I think that’s probably the most important aspect of it. The graphic violence isn’t as important as how it makes you feel — if it scares you, if it upsets you, if it just makes you feel for Mark a little bit more. The fact that you can use music to kind of the emotions in the direction you want to go to further those scenes and make them that much more engaging is really good.
And when you’re trying to drive emotion and wring as much emotion as possible out of these harrowing sequences, you get really meticulous with sounds. I can’t tell you how often we’re like, “No, no, I want to hear more bone breaking there. Can you drop the blood gushing sound and amp up the bone breaking sound? We really want people to hear that so that it’s even more unnerving.”
It’s a lot of work put into that, which is fun. Having those tools at your disposal is really amazing.
FW: The other element that the series format offers that isn’t available in a comic book is performance. I think Steven Yeun does an incredible job as Mark/Invincible, especially in season 2. What do you think of the evolution of his voice performance in the role?
Kirkman: Well, Steven is a genius. I don’t think I need to talk about how great he is — he’s won or been nominated for every award at this point. And I just have to say, we came in for season one, the very first recording session, and he said, “I’m going to come in here with my character because I know that eventually, I have to go here,” because he had read the series. So he was like, “If I’m sounding too young and too naive and too optimistic, I need you to tell me, but I want you to know it’s a deliberate choice. And I’m doing it so that I can take it to this point.”
And I’ve got to tell you, the fact that he has come in at this level for season one, and we’ve notched things up so deliberately for season two, is a really great example of just how skilled he really is. There’s still a tinge of naivete in Mark there, even with how upset he is and how emotional he is over everything he’s gone through with his father. There’s still this sense of him being somewhat immature. That is so hard to weave into a performance. – Robert Kirkman
And I know that he’s got 10 more notches to go, and he has those honed in very specifically. It’s a real treat and an honor to be able to work with him. I’m absolutely in awe with what he’s able to accomplish with this performance.
FW: He’s also not the only incredible performer in the Invincible cast. You have so many people, both returning from the past season and new to this season, who are brilliant. Is there anyone whose turn you want to highlight?
Kirkman: It’s so hard to single anyone out. I single Steven out because he’ll give me crap if I don’t. But I mean, Sandra Oh literally brings us to tears almost every record session and is just the human core of the show. I mean, she takes that role very seriously. She’s the human perspective that’s witnessing all of these insane aspects of this world. She grounds the world of Invincible and makes it believable, and makes the emotions hit that much harder because you see how realistic her portrayal of this very unreal character is.
I think J.K. Simmons, again, how are we this fortunate? He has such a smaller role in season two because he’s kind of off on his own, but when he comes back, he comes back with a vengeance and is a completely different aspect of the character he portrayed in the first season.
Invincible is a show where the characters evolve wildly from season to season, and the fact that we have a cast that can handle this so well is a blessing. But J.K., especially his performance in season two, alters and tempers the perception of his performance in season one. Once you’ve seen all aspects of how he’s portrayed this character and you go back and watch the older episodes, you pick up little things that you didn’t notice before that show what’s actually going on in his head. – Robert Kirkman
Like when he’s decimating Mark in that fight and different little things that he says all the way back to the pilot when they’re having dinner. You kind of see, “Oh, I get why he wasn’t excited about Mark getting powers at first. He was actually becoming a good guy because I saw that in season two. And he realizes he has to be the bad guy he’s supposed to be, and he doesn’t want to be.” And again, it’s just an insane level of performance that we’re getting from these people.
(sarcastically) And Jason Mantzoukas is a constant disappointment.
FW: In season 2 of Invincible, you really got to explore some of the deeper complexities of these characters’ arcs. Are there any arcs, apart from Mark’s, of course, that resonated particularly deeply with you?
Kirkman: I mean, again, I’ll talk about Debbie and Sandra Oh. For her to go from this distraught mess after what happened with her husband to protecting this child that isn’t even hers that is connected to this guy that she had grown to hate by the end of the season is just a crazy transition for her. And the strength that she shows in every step of that journey is just a remarkable arc for that character.
And Sandra does such an amazing job with it. It’s just such a great story to experience. I think the whole writing team does such an exceptional job with her and her character, and then Sandra comes in and just elevates everything. That’s another arc I would really like to draw attention to.
FW: There was a gap of almost three years between seasons 1 and 2, and you acknowledged this with the tongue-in-cheek bit about Seance Dog that was a callback to the comics. Did you find that this time allowed you to perfect the vision for season 2?
Kirkman: I think so. I mean, we didn’t lose the audience, which is amazing. And by not losing the audience, we built up this almost mythic air around season one. We’ve been ruminating on this finale of season one for over two years, how are you going to follow this up? What is this show even going to be?
And it just put us in a really great place. Season two, in a lot of ways, is almost like a second season one because of that gap, and the show is so different in season two. We’re coming in and saying, “No, this is actually what the show is, and we’re going to be exploring this and exploring that.” – Robert Kirkman
I think the fact that you can see the differences between the two seasons gives you a better sense of what the show is and what it’s going to try to accomplish. The fact that our premieres are so different than our finales are so different while having some similar aspects gives you a better sense of the breadth of what we’re trying to accomplish with the show.
FW: You’ve said there’s not going to be as much of a delay heading into season 3. A big part of the anticipation for season 2 was “Was it worth the wait?” And I’d say very much so. Since there’s not as much of a wait, do you think season 3 of Invincible will live up to this incredible season 2?
Kirkman: Well, season two was, I think, different than season one in a lot of ways. I think season three, in some ways, brings more elements of season one in but also expands on them. There’s more action. There are more consequences. There are more really gut-wrenching moments.
I look at each season as a progression, and I think that season two was a slight progression over season one in its intensity and emotional content. And I think season three is a big jump. So I’m actually pretty bullish on season three blowing people away. I think the team has really killed themselves putting the season together and knocked it out of the park. And I think our voice cast has expanded in some really exciting ways, and we brought in some new characters and some new storylines and things, and I think it’s gonna be really cool. – Robert Kirkman
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